Liechi Rhyperior

This isn't a team, but this is a set that I've made made and have been using for a while. It's easy to use and it's helpful. Rate and comment.


Rhyperior @ Jolly nature
Liechi Berry
Solid Rock
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
~Substitute
~Rock Polish
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge/Fire Punch

Set: The nature and EVs of this set are understandable. With Jolly and 252 EVs in Speed, its speed is 196. With one Rock Polish, though, the speed is doubled to 398 and it's able to outspeed most OU Pokemon without Choice Scarf. With another Rock Polish, it'll be able to outspeed almost every Pokemon. Earthquake is a powerful STAB, but the final choice is yours. Stone Edge is another great STAB move and it goes well with Earthquake while Fire Punch can help you deal with a Forretress or a Magnezone that used Magnet Rise when you were Substituting.

Steps: This set is easy to use but hard to pull off most of the times. There's some easy ones to switch into, though, like Blissey or Electivire. You Substitute first before Rock Polishing, and that's very important as many Scarfs can outspeed Rhyperior. From there, they will most likely break the Substitute, letting you use Rock Polish freely. From there, they will most likely continue breaking the Substitute, and you shall allow them to. Eventually, they'll have Rhyperior at 25% (or 18% health depending if Stealth Rocks was activated), and Liechi Berry will activate and raise Rhyperior's attack to 569 (rounded). From here, it's time to make your opponent cry.

Threats: The threats for this is many, but as long as you switch it in perfectly and make a Substitute first, you'll do fine. Main things you may want to happen is to Encore or predict a choiced Electric move or switch in to a predictable Electric-type move or a Physical move that isn't Grass, Water, Fighting, Ground, or Ice-type. Switching Rhyperior into a Blissey is great, but watch out if it has Toxic instead of Thunder Wave. If Rhyperior is Poisoned or Burned, it kills the strategy and it'll crumble (get it? It's made out of rocks). As I stated below, Scarfed Pokemon will destroy it if it only has one Rock Polish, and having two Rock Polishes is hard to do.

Advantages: With the 569 Attack, it's going to hurt a lot. As I said, it's able to outspeed most non-scarf Pokemon and non-Agility ones as well. It's able to OHKO a 0 HP, 160 Defense EV'd Starmie and a LeadTar with Earthquake. With Stone Edge, it's able to take down Togekiss and Dragonite with one hit and 2HKO a standard Skarmory. Fire Punch OHKOs Magnezone, Forretress, and Torterra and 2HKO a standard Skarmory and Salamence (with Intimidate).

Overall: This set is pretty good. I've made a couple of custom sets myself and this is a mediocre one. It's won me many battles, but since I got experienced with it, it's been my final finisher. It's a good Set and if you plan on using a Rhyperior, this set is pretty good to try out. Remember to comment.

Really nice set, but wrong section.

O wow that is actually a pretty good set there but maybe to pull of the two rock polishes better is to batton pass a rock polish or agility to rhyperior and then use rhyperior's own rockpolish then you will be able to set up and won't take much risk from having to substitute and use 2 rock polishes (which is already 3 wasting 3 turn to set up). Maybe you can even ditch the substitute and have the advantage to get another move in there but ofcourse the liechi berrry won't activate. A great batton passer to pull this of is gliscor or any other bulky pokemon that can learn batton pass and rock polish/agility.

Gliscor? Really? That's a terrible choice. Not only will they half expect it to be a Baton Pass, but they both share two weaknesses: Ice and Water. A better choice, actually, would be Ninjask, but this set isn't to be Baton Passed, this set is meant for Rhyperior to prove that he can set up like other Pokemon and sweep with its incredible Attack stat. As I stated above, only one is necessary to eliminate those that do not have Choice Scarf.

Hmmm i see your point on the weakness part of both gliscor and rhyperior, but once you get rid of your oponents pokemon with acces to water and ice type moves, then maybe you can set up and you can always carry protect on gliscor for scouting purposes.

yea but some comman pokes like belly drum linoone and gyradoes can pwn this before it can attack

other than that though, impressive!
check out my steel monoteam!
https://pokecenter.darkbb.com/rate-my-team-f24/mono-type-teams-t683.htm

Blaze wrote:Gliscor? Really? That's a terrible choice. Not only will they half expect it to be a Baton Pass, but they both share two weaknesses: Ice and Water. A better choice, actually, would be Ninjask, but this set isn't to be Baton Passed, this set is meant for Rhyperior to prove that he can set up like other Pokemon and sweep with its incredible Attack stat. As I stated above, only one is necessary to eliminate those that do not have Choice Scarf.

ok i like this set but hate the fraigle side. with no real defence or hp evs solid rock will help but it cant do it all so i say dump some attack evs in def or hp because siczor can have a feild day with this guy espically sword dancing occa berry siczor. and with Bug bite siczor this can bite you in the butt now with one miss prediction if you catch a bug bite from siczor says yum:) plus 1 attack never tasted so good.

but yeah move some evs to defence or sp def other than that good job my friend and
Oh yea 196x2 is 392 not 398


and bllaze solid rock can handel physical ice attacks so that doesnt matter at all it actually will help you hit berry faster unless its an SD weaviile and no people dont expect Baton pass oon gliscor often most people think wall untill they see an agility plus a SD maybe but by then its to late its passing the boost for a sweep

O wow you are completely right Crimsonn Assasin, i completely forgot about the scizor you descirbbed. Specially the option of bugbite lol. And i agree with what you said about gliscor, its true most people usually expect a stall gliscor or a stealth rocker.

but most pokemon dont have berrys so bug bite wont be very useful

rate my team https://pokecenter.darkbb.com/rate-my-team-f24/mono-type-teams-t683.htm

Crimson assassin wrote:

Blaze wrote:Gliscor? Really? That's a terrible choice. Not only will they half expect it to be a Baton Pass, but they both share two weaknesses: Ice and Water. A better choice, actually, would be Ninjask, but this set isn't to be Baton Passed, this set is meant for Rhyperior to prove that he can set up like other Pokemon and sweep with its incredible Attack stat. As I stated above, only one is necessary to eliminate those that do not have Choice Scarf.

ok i like this set but hate the fraigle side. with no real defence or hp evs solid rock will help but it cant do it all so i say dump some attack evs in def or hp because siczor can have a feild day with this guy espically sword dancing occa berry siczor. and with Bug bite siczor this can bite you in the butt now with one miss prediction if you catch a bug bite from siczor says yum:) plus 1 attack never tasted so good.

but yeah move some evs to defence or sp def other than that good job my friend and
Oh yea 196x2 is 392 not 398


and bllaze solid rock can handel physical ice attacks so that doesnt matter at all it actually will help you hit berry faster unless its an SD weaviile and no people dont expect Baton pass oon gliscor often most people think wall untill they see an agility plus a SD maybe but by then its to late its passing the boost for a sweep

Actually, what you say isn't correct, and I'll point it out. FIRST, have you seen Rhyperior's base Defense stat? If so, look at it again. 130. ONE HUNDRED THIRTY. This will survive a Bullet Punch from a Choice Band Scizor. And, what retard would BUG BITE a Rhyperior? Not only is this set not widely known, but who would use an attack that isn't effective against a Rock-type? They all expect a Rhyperior to have Leftovers or Life Orb, especially if it Rock Polishes.

Also, move EVs in Special Defense? Look, kid, you should feel dumb for suggesting it. First of all, Grass Knot AND Surf are common moves in OU that can and will destroy Rhyperior OHKO. The EVs are not going to matter. Most people are going to switch in Starmie, Latias, and Azelf to name a few. Plus, who in the right mind would even think about sending a fragile pokemon effective for revenge killing and Latias against a strong tank that's now faster than it? People don't send out Weaviles against Rhyperior, and if they do, they need to seriously go learn at Smogon.

You're just considering yourself when you're talking about Gliscor. Before I even said that, I went on Shoddy on the Smogon server and the majority of people there said that they expect a Physical Wall Gliscor AND a Baton Passing Gliscor. Scenario also helps determine what that Gliscor is, such as a Smeargle in the lead. Also, like I said before, by the time you use Agility or Sword Dance, they will switch into a counter for Gliscor, which are mostly Latias and Starmie.

And Goldfish, don't spam and don't put links to your team here.

GoldFish wrote:but most pokemon dont have berrys so bug bite wont be very useful

lol do you mean most do.lol and bug bite the opponet doesnt have to have a berry it just steals it if they do.lol and siczor runs bug bite for tech boost now.lol

and you need to check your facts loads of pokemon run berrys from salac, pataya, to shucka, and wacan, hell even t-tars holdd berrys now thanks to bullet punch

blaze ok I'm a wifi player and if you were a player worth your salt you'd know what works on shoddy typically will not work on wifi and vice versa. and i bet you the main gliscor you see on wifi is a wall gliscor

and honestly why do i have a feeling that you only make sence to yourself right now. as soon as gliscor gets up a rock polish latias and starime are no longer counters as they can no longer stop the gliscor due to the fact that ummmm i dont know he is fast than them at this point. bro you need make valid point

and i have to say you are only paying attenion to a few threats
like the whole sure grass kont thing honestly. dont you know rhyperior is hurt by other special attacking moves like umm i don't know focus blast or maybe ice beam OhHHHH better yet hum the most popular special attacking move right now draco meteor. I bet you it will wont live or barely live a dragonite draco meteor.


second: sword dance bullet punch is stronger than choice band bullet punch and just so you know most siczor sword dancers run life orb to so 130 defence means little in the face of sd+life orb+technitian boost+ stab siczor so that was a dumb statement to make.

you really that ignorant of the main type of rhyperior killers. well let me fill you in they are scarfers or counter pokes. loads of people switch in weavile on rock polish rhyperiors thanks to counter sash and most counter sash pokes typically have a pokemon with Rapin with them. but i wasn't even saying that i'm saying if you are sending in a rhyperior to face a weavile. you need to think as if say a max health weavile and your max health rhyperior were going at it who would when why and how many diffrent outcomes (- hax of course) could there be

last i was saying if you make a switch into a bug bite because i'm sure you will use the tanking side to take physical hits for your pokemon from time to time you may end up with your berry gone. by no means was i saying oh siczor is gonna bug bite your rhyperior in a one on 1

you are a good set maker yet a bad one because

1. to the fact you complain when you are corrected or offered advice

2. you are close minded

3. you rely on shoddy to make decisions on your sets if you are gonna make a set that you are gonna say hey this works or should work for both metagames on shoddy and on wifi dont reley on just information from shoddy. like the gliscor thing contrary to what shoddy tells you most people see gliscor as a wall thats why when people run baton pass it works so well

4. before you go off calling names and being rude you should say i dont get why i should could you further explain or no thanks i think this set is cool the way it is. i respected you now i should of gotten respect back

and one more lol. i can count on 1 hand how many times grass knot has come up in a battle most of the time it's hidden power grass not grass knot. lol dude you have no idea about what you are talking about smogon. is not god. it doesn't contain all the answers especially not for wifi. shoddy yes wifi no


but thanks for the good argument however i'm sure ive won this one
especially being the fact that my second thread i joined 3 years ago was smogon:)
and you need to go and learn at smogon counter weavile is huge.lol

Just back with some damage calcs

a modest or quiet dragonite draco meteor with life orb vs liechi rhyperior set does: Damage Per Hit: 439 - 517 / 118.0% - 139.0%

a siczor with +2 attack and life orb (like most have lol) vs liechi rhyperior does: Damage Per Hit: 334 - 396 / 89.8% - 106.5%

modest gengar focus blast vs liechi rhyperior: Damage Per Hit: 348 - 411 / 93.5% - 110.5%
and that gets no stab and no item

naughty seviper giga drain plus life orb vs lecihi rhyperior: Damage Per Hit: 345 - 408 / 92.7% - 109.7%

I to add that one in because i run seviper:)

now do you see how a few sp.def or hp evs can make this even better i mean you dont need all that attack evs your getting more from the berry anyway you wont lose any ohkos from putting a few evs into defences

Crimson assassin wrote:blaze ok I'm a wifi player and if you were a player worth your salt you'd know what works on shoddy typically will not work on wifi and vice versa. and i bet you the main gliscor you see on wifi is a wall gliscor

Says you, I've seen many Agility Passing AND Sword Dance passing Gliscors. You're seriously only talking about what you see, not what I see, so please stop being ignorant.

and honestly why do i have a feeling that you only make sence to yourself right now. as soon as gliscor gets up a rock polish latias and starime are no longer counters as they can no longer stop the gliscor due to the fact that ummmm i dont know he is fast than them at this point. bro you need make valid point

Actually, you're quite wrong. Starmies, not starime, usually have Choice Scarf to outspeed Latias's nowadays, and guess what, a Choice Scarf Starmie actually OUTSPEEDS A ROCK POLISH/AGILITY GLISCOR. Can you believe that? So not only does it outspeed Gliscor, but it can possibly OHKO it as well. Sir, I think YOU need to make a valid point.

and i have to say you are only paying attenion to a few threats
like the whole sure grass kont thing honestly. dont you know rhyperior is hurt by other special attacking moves like umm i don't know focus blast or maybe ice beam OhHHHH better yet hum the most popular special attacking move right now draco meteor. I bet you it will wont live or barely live a dragonite draco meteor.

You're saying a Rhyperior of any set will not survive one of those, but this is false. Rhyperior can survive a Draco Meteor from Dragonite in a Sandstorm with the damage being 75.5% - 89.2%, regardless of EVs and Nature. Yes, Focus Blast and Ice Beam will kill Rhyperior, but that's if Rhyperior did not have a Substitute set up. Focus Blast has terrible Accuracy also, so if the person using Rhyperior has any luck, it could have a free sub when Focus Blast misses. Ice Beam is just something that you're going to have to deal with and press your luck when Liechi Berry activates and you either Earthquake or Stone Edge. Also, only 4 Pokemon in OU can use Draco Meteor, so I don't think it's very common. I certainly do not enjoy using it.

second: sword dance bullet punch is stronger than choice band bullet punch and just so you know most siczor sword dancers run life orb to so 130 defence means little in the face of sd+life orb+technitian boost+ stab siczor so that was a dumb statement to make.

And just what makes you think anyone is dumb enough to send a Rhyperior against a Scizor that just Sword Danced, hm? Not only is it slower than Scizor, but even if it somehow survived Bullet Punch, Scizor would use Superpower instead or be an ass and use Sword Dance. Also, the player wouldn't have this problem if he already switched into Rhyperior and the person switches into Scizor. If the player with Rhyperior took my advice and used Substitute first, he would eventually have a Substitute AND +1 with Liechi. Though it probably would not survive long, it could kill Scizor.

you really that ignorant of the main type of rhyperior killers. well let me fill you in they are scarfers or counter pokes. loads of people switch in weavile on rock polish rhyperiors thanks to counter sash and most counter sash pokes typically have a pokemon with Rapin with them. but i wasn't even saying that i'm saying if you are sending in a rhyperior to face a weavile. you need to think as if say a max health weavile and your max health rhyperior were going at it who would when why and how many diffrent outcomes (- hax of course) could there be

LOL, I have stated before that Choice Scarfs destroy Rhyperior. xD
Also, Counter Sashes are horrible. Yeah, they usually have Rapid Spinners with them, but what prevents the Rapid Spinner from dying and having another Pokemon Stealth Rocking? A Counter Sash would be effective if the player with this Rhyperior was stupid and didn't have a Ghost-type in his/her team. Most of them died down anyway, and what player would have the time to set up with Sword Dance against a Tank that has more Defense base stat than a Weavile's Attack stat? Also, you're also assuming Rhyperior hasn't had a Rock Polish up either. A Weavile that had a Sword Dance up that used Ice Shard would do 51.1% - 60.8%, but that would break the Substitute and wouldn't KO it even if its Substitute already broke. With Rock Polish up and that attack hit, Liechi Berry would already be activated and would KO it with one attack because Counter Sashes rarely work.

last i was saying if you make a switch into a bug bite because i'm sure you will use the tanking side to take physical hits for your pokemon from time to time you may end up with your berry gone. by no means was i saying oh siczor is gonna bug bite your rhyperior in a one on 1

From time to time? You mean only once, because once it takes that Physical Hit, it's going to set up if the other pokemon switches. Also, edit your message if you weren't trying to say Scizor was going to Bug Bite Rhyperior, because I was confused.

you are a good set maker yet a bad one because

1. to the fact you complain when you are corrected or offered advice

2. you are close minded

There's a difference between taking bad advice and taking good advice. So far, all of the suggestions were bad advice, including yours.

3. you rely on shoddy to make decisions on your sets if you are gonna make a set that you are gonna say hey this works or should work for both metagames on shoddy and on wifi dont reley on just information from shoddy. like the gliscor thing contrary to what shoddy tells you most people see gliscor as a wall thats why when people run baton pass it works so well

The reason why I use Shoddy is because Wifi people rarely have legit Latias that have a perfect nature, IVs, and EVs. If they do have one that's absolutely perfect, they either hacked or were very lucky. Not only that, but Baton Passing Gliscors are a waste. They're better off as a Dancing Tank.

4. before you go off calling names and being rude you should say i dont get why i should could you further explain or no thanks i think this set is cool the way it is. i respected you now i should of gotten respect back

I don't give respect to people who do not deserve my respect.

and one more lol. i can count on 1 hand how many times grass knot has come up in a battle most of the time it's hidden power grass not grass knot. lol dude you have no idea about what you are talking about smogon. is not god. it doesn't contain all the answers especially not for wifi. shoddy yes wifi no

Who in the right mind would use Hidden Power Grass? Tell me, please, so that I may go over to his house and slap his face. It's only good against Swampert while HP Ice is so much better. It hits Hippowdon, Salamence, Dragonite, Latias, Aerodactyl, Breloom, Celebi, Flygon, Gliscor, Roserade, Togekiss, and Zapdos effectively while HP Grass hits Swampert, Hippowdon, Starmie, Vaporeon, Empoleon, and Mamoswine effectively in OU tier. HP Ice hits twice as many Pokemon in OU tier effectively than HP Grass. With the rise of Infernapes that resist Latias's counters, they have no need of HP grass.
No, sir, you do not know what you are talking about. Smogon is not our god, but Competitive Pokemon's government. Most forums and groups follow their tiers and they trust what they're doing, but like real countries, other people will not trust and make their own tiers. We follow THEIR rules like the citizens that we are in real life. No, you do not know what you are talking about because you cannot get the concept in your mind that I'm right, you're wrong.

but thanks for the good argument however i'm sure ive won this one
especially being the fact that my second thread i joined 3 years ago was smogon:)
and you need to go and learn at smogon counter weavile is huge.lol

Oh no, you joined Smogon 3 years ago. Dude, I've been competitive battling since 2005, so sit down and shut up. You do not know anything at all. I was the one that suggested Blaziken become OU there because it could counter SkarmBliss.

Thank you kash.

Alright Kash, but this is just a statement: Crimson is only calculating that my Rhyperior has not set up already and not have Sandstorm. If he, Rhyperior, has, then his Gengar, Dragonite, and Seviper calculations is incorrect and it would deal 74.2% - 87.4%, 79% - 93%, and 68.5% - 80.6% respectfully. And to make it fairer, I made all three have max EVs, his prefered nature, and Life Orb. That is all I'm going to say at the moment.

Yeah Goldfish, I see what you are saying, but bugbite is a pretty good move to have because with technician and stabbed it becomes pretty strong (i think almost as strong or even stronger than x-scizor). It doesn't have the high critical hit ratio that x-scizor has but it secondary effect can come in handy on the likes of subpetaya empoleon and others that relly on berries to survive or to set up a sweep. I guess one would have to be trully original and think outside the box to have the guts to have a scizor with bugbite even though scizor is overly over used lol. ^_^

you didn't mention anything aboust a sandstorm now did you. I'm done with you kid because i notice everytime i wage an argument you cant beat you attempt to add stuff to try and make your point valid

like i said when you make a damn set you play like its one on one nothing outside affecting what happens then you start saying well if sandstorm was up but first you need to say what happens if it wasn't if it was just my rhyperior nothing else how would it work and if life orb gengar kills your rhyperior still

I'm sorry for the argument especially when my argument is way more valid than his. sorry for trying to hell you out kid

lol why do you mean don't deserve it i was respectful to you untill you went all little crybaby mode on me

i hate disrespect and ignorance and you have both

blaze grass knot arguement is invalid honestly: hp grass is more valuable than grass knot most the time only time grass knot matters is typically on rocks and ground because they are heavy but i bet hp grass hits most waters better because most aren't heavy so yeah your an idiot for saying that.

ok now understand azelf is only being used as a an example i know it will typically t-bolt in these situations but just for the sake of proving my point

timid azelf hp grass 70 vs vaporeon bold 252 spdef evs: Damage Per Hit: 124 - 146 / 26.7% - 31.5%

timid azelf grass knot vs vaporenon bold 252 spdef evs: Damage Per Hit: 104 - 124 / 22.4% - 26.7% (Number of Hits: 1)

now your argument is good for milotc or tyranitar but certian things hp grass 70 is better for

Crimson assassin wrote:you didn't mention anything aboust a sandstorm now did you. I'm done with you kid because i notice everytime i wage an argument you cant beat you attempt to add stuff to try and make your point valid

Actually, I do make my points valid and they are facts. I add stuff in because every day I test this Rhyperior to make it a little bit better every time.

Since you obviously can't get it into your mind at all, this is how it's suppose to be: Throw it in to counter, Substitute, Rock Polish, Substitute more to make Liechi activate, Earthquake and Stone Edge sweep. I just... how are you not understanding this? Please tell me. I'm obviously making more sense than you.

like i said when you make a damn set you play like its one on one nothing outside affecting what happens then you start saying well if sandstorm was up but first you need to say what happens if it wasn't if it was just my rhyperior nothing else how would it work and if life orb gengar kills your rhyperior still

Sorry, I can't understand this sentence... well, it's not a sentence because you're not using correct grammar.

Yes, I do see your point about the adding information. I should've said that in the first place, but Gengar does not outspeed Rhyperior when it has Rock Polish. 196*2 > 350 (max speed Gengar). Therefore, if Stone Edge hits Gengar, it'll OHKO. Smogon is currently down, but it is a OHKO as it does between 392 - 461 damage.

I'm sorry for the argument especially when my argument is way more valid than his. sorry for trying to hell you out kid

You can't hell anyone out. You can't use the word 'hell' as a verb. Wow... xD

Anyway, I have to say that we are both valid. We both have our points, but you have made you point. Rhyperior is, yes, stoppable, as I have stated in my before posts, but you just can't shut up.

lol why do you mean don't deserve it i was respectful to you untill you went all little crybaby mode on me

Hmm... I don't remember crying. I remember countering your statement with facts and opinions at the same time.

i hate disrespect and ignorance and you have both

Oh, my feelings are hurt. I just don't take advice from people who know less than me.

blaze grass knot arguement is invalid honestly: hp grass is more valuable than grass knot most the time only time grass knot matters is typically on rocks and ground because they are heavy but i bet hp grass hits most waters better because most aren't heavy so yeah your an idiot for saying that.

Actually, your argument (it's really argument, not arguement) is a matter of opinion. HP Grass's base is 70 at most, while Grass Knot can go higher and lower depending on the Pokemon. Your statement about the Water is also very unintelligent. I bet you haven't even checked all of the Water-types weight because only HP Grass does more on Vaporeon. Grass Knot's base against the four other Water-type OU Pokemon (Starmie, Empoleon, Swampert, Suicune) is 80, 80, 80, 100, which is more than HP Grass. Yeah, I'm the dumb one, eh? You want to know something else? Agaisnt Milotic, Feraligatr, and Walrein respectfully, its base is 100, 80, and 100. Most Water-types aren't heavy, but those that evolve and are the bigger threats weigh more, so before you attempt to counter this, please do research before making yourself sound like a fool.

Also, with your calculations on Vaporeon, you do realize that Vaporeon is the only Water-type Pokemon in OU that takes more damage from HP Grass than the other 3 pure ones, right? I do hope so, because that's the only time HP Grass is effective besides HP Ice: against a Vaporeon that cannot take a Thunderpunch attack. <_<

dude I'm not going to sya i know alot more than you but i will say that i know just as much.

you can't honestly sit back and say o grass knot is better because while it's power does grow it grows only on 1 condition and that is that your opponent must be heavy now i'm not saying grass knot isn't used by no means at all but what i am saying is you will see more energy balls and hp grass than you will ever see grass knots

I was actually apart of the Grass knot VS energy ball debate on smogon and people love the fact energy ball has sp def drop chance and is a stable 80 instead of being so dependant on why the opponents pokemon are. but either way as you said we both have valid points and yeah my graammer was quite horrible in that last post however i was offering help you were disrespectful.

And id like to say Ive been playing for many years kiddo so i give good advice. quite a few of the set on smogon i helped people fix and make big. like DD tyranitar, and boah i helped on but you don't know everything so listen to what we have to say

dude I'm not going to sya i know alot more than you but i will say that i know just as much.

You sure aren't showing it.

you can't honestly sit back and say o grass knot is better because while it's power does grow it grows only on 1 condition and that is that your opponent must be heavy now i'm not saying grass knot isn't used by no means at all but what i am saying is you will see more energy balls and hp grass than you will ever see grass knots

Have you seen the sets on OU lately? The Pokemon who would prefer Grass Knot over HP Grass and Energy Ball (if available) are Infernape, Starmie, Empoleon, Azelf, and, get this, Celebi. Celebi would rather use Grass Knot than Energy Ball in its set. If you do not believe this, check its set on Smogon. If you look at all the sets in OU, there is not a single Energy Ball in its set. HP Grass is seldom and only good on Heatran, Magnezone, and Zapdos who suffer from a Swampert.

I was actually apart of the Grass knot VS energy ball debate on smogon and people love the fact energy ball has sp def drop chance and is a stable 80 instead of being so dependant on why the opponents pokemon are. but either way as you said we both have valid points and yeah my graammer was quite horrible in that last post however i was offering help you were disrespectful.

Too bad there are only 4 Pokemon in OU that has access to Energy Ball, and all three Pokemon would rather use Grass Knot in its set. Energy Ball has 10% chance of lowering Sp. Def. The only time HP Grass and Energy Ball would be very effective would be in NU or NFE.

And id like to say Ive been playing for many years kiddo so i give good advice. quite a few of the set on smogon i helped people fix and make big. like DD tyranitar, and boah i helped on but you don't know everything so listen to what we have to say

That is meaningless to me since you have been no help to me at all. You may have played for 10 years, but I won't care unless you have good information like, "72 EVs in Speed with Rock Polish would outspeed a Starmie". Although that statement is a lie, that information is what I need.

Also, since Smogon came back online, I've been doing research on your results. First of all, none of the sets on Vaporeon have Vaporeon as 252 Special Defense and the damage percent do not matter to me. Here's the real calculations with the damage on a standard Wish Vaporeon (188 HP) with a Life Orb Azelf(252 Sp. Attack) that includes the HP restored with Leftovers:

Hidden Power [Grass] 70
Turn 1: 448 - 197 + 28 = 279
Turn 2: 279 - 197 + 28 = 110
Turn 3: 110 - 197 = 3HKO

Grass Knot
Turn 1: 448 - 172 + 28 = 304
Turn 2: 304 - 172 + 28 = 160
Turn 3: 160 - 172 = 3HKO

Energy Ball
Turn 1: 448 - 227 + 28 = 249
Turn 2: 249 - 227 + 28 = 50
Turn 3: 50 - 227 = 3HKO

The damage done is the average amount. As you can see, they all would most likely on average 3HKO Vaporeon if no other effects are in effect (Stealth Rocks, Poison, Spikes, etc.) .