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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day

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Knuckles
raquaza
Checkmate
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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Empty Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day

Post by Checkmate Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:53 pm

Indeed, the concept of “Checkmate” has been altered into many literal definitions. Originally forming from chess, the term has since evolved into a common acknowledgment of defeat, and has become cathphrase of battlers all around. This team was designed to take full advantage of the term; designed to take advantage of the naiveté of battlers these days. All power, all speed, but no strategy. That is what I have observed after a long hiatus from battling. With this team, I shall, hopefully, Checkmate my opposing battlers, after which I shall reply, “Looks like a queen sweep, no pawn intended.” Simply, Checkmate.

Building Process

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_m

I started creating the team with my old rain dance team in my mind, so there was no question that I would be running Azelf as my lead, just as I did with the rain dance team, which I had so much success with. It was a Pokemon that was fast, and one that could Taunt, ensuring that they could do nothing but attack Azelf and its HP investment. It was practically guaranteed to set up sunny day, and once finished, it could explode, which would at least tent something.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_m

Next I had to pick a sweeper. I knew right off the bat that I would have a weakness of some sort to fire after sunny day’s boost. So, Heatran was essentially a must. It could absorb fire attacks and, with the set I’m using, hide behind a sub while they switch. Heatran is also a Pokemon that can abuse Solarbeam, which takes care of the bulky water that try to switch in on me. With solar beam, it’s Blissey, or CHECKMATE.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_m

With Azelf going suicide 100 percent of the time, I knew that one Sunny Day supporter would be too few. With all of the Machamps running around, I just had to have a ghost of some type, and Rotom-H was perfect for the fit. It could set up sunny day, and afterwards hurt something really badly with Overheat, and it could spam paralysis all over the place, making it an easier sweep. It also serves as a Gyarados counter.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_m

Now for another sweeper. Again, I had my old rain dance team in mind, so I ran with something that would get a speed boost from the sun. Tangrowth seemed unlikely, but as it turns out, it does some serious damage. After one Sward Dance, it can really hit anything hard with Power Whip. If not, it will at least put something to sleep.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 51_dugtrio_1_m

If there’s on thing that really screws this team over, it would be Blissey. This Dugtrio could make sure that Blissey was disposed of, so that Heatran could sweep much, much easier.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 51_dugtrio_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 145_zapdos_1_m

Zapdos, at the time, was a filler. I liked it because it was bulky and it was something that could really appreciate the STAB boost from heat wave, making it a little bit more dangerous. This Zapdos was somewhat of a hybrid, taking the role of a tank and a sweeper.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 169_crobat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 51_dugtrio_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 145_zapdos_1_m

After messing around with the team for a while, I quickly realized that an Azelf lead wasn’t what it used to be. Other Azelfs would taunt me and essentially screw the whole battle over, and Machamp leads would just confuse me, among other things. I decided to take out Azelf, and run a Crobat instead. Crobat is faster than Azelf, and can taunt, but the one thing that really made it a keeper was U-turn and Brave Bird. Now I didn’t fear Machamp leads, and my lead could last longer, dealing more damage that Azeld ever could.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 169_crobat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 143_snorlax_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 145_zapdos_1_m

I realized that with the addition of Crobat, I no longer had a huge Blissey weakness, so Dugtrio was no longer needed, as it wasn’t doing anything besides killing Blisseys. I noticed that I was getting raped by anything with specs, so I needed a special wall. Snorlax was my choice, and thick fat really made it easier to switch on attack coming for Tangrowth and Crobat. It was a special wall that could also hurt stuff. Sweet.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 169_crobat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 143_snorlax_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_m

Zapdos wasn’t working out. I knew that for this team to be successful, I couldn’t have any fillers. I took out Zapdos, but I couldn’t find anything that worked. Nothing seemed to fit the role, so I created my own late-game sweeper that specialized in blowing away those pesky, lingering walls. I designed a mix-zelf, if you will. One that could dispose of Breloom, Blisssey, bulky waters, Skarmory, and most common walls that tend to stick around. I had my team.

Team Checkmate

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 169_crobat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 485_heatran_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 479_rotom_heat_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 465_tangrowth_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 143_snorlax_1_mRain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day 482_azelf_1_m

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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Crobat

Crobat @ Heat Rock
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature ( + Speed) ( - Special Attack)
Evs: 204 HP, 252 Speed, 52 Defense

- [Brave Bird]
- [U-Turn]
- [Sunny Day]
- [Taunt]


Look, I’ve had plenty of leads over the years, but I never really had any success with them. I eventually concluded that leads should be used to set up entry hazards, etc, but to truly set up a Checkmate, I needed something simple, yet effective. Obviously, my lead needed to set up Sunny Day, but something that could also deal some damage. I was never much for copying Smogon, but I really don’t know enough about leads to create my own. Although Smogon calls for 152 invested in Attack so it could deal some damage, but for this particular tam, I’m not aiming for the lead to deal too much damage. I need to set up Sunny Day, badly, since I only have two Sunny Day supporters, so I switched everything around a little bit, sacrificing power for bulk. The HP investments has really made that quite a bit easier, as it can effectively shut down Roserade with Taunt, and can take HP Ice from it easily while setting up Sunny Day, among other things. I ran a slight bit of Defense evs, but only because I really hate Fake Out. Despite all of the bulk this lead has, Crobat can still Checkmate its share of Pokemon, being extremely effective against Machamp, an increasingly common lead. What I love the most about Crobat, though, is its speed. I don’t know about you, but trickers are horribly easy to predict and counter, and I’m not too concerned about them at all. Sure, I’ll have to switch my lead out, but Crobat can effectively set up Sunny Day against anything not carrying a scarf. It is true that I want this thing to be as bulky as possible, but I think it is absolutely necessary to run max Speed evs, along with a Jolly Nature. This way, I will at least tie against the common Aerodactyl leads, which can taunt and kill me with Stealth Rock, so Taunting it first is important. Now, you’re probably wondering why I trashed Roost on this particular set… Well, I did run it for a while over U-Turn, and it wasn’t really helping me too much. Despite all of the bulk I gave it, I just think that U-Turn is much more usefull than Roost at this point. Sure, Stealth Rock will wear me down. After all, this was created with durability in mind; however, I love the fact that I can deal some damage while switching, effectively destroying anything with focus sash. I chose Brave Bird over any other flying moves that it can learn because it just plain deals more damage, and that’s what I’m looking for when it comes to a bulky lead. I don’t really mind the recoil, anyway. All in all, Crobat is basically guaranteeing me a set up of Sunny Day, but unlike Azelf, it can stick around and hopefully kill some things that I otherwise would have problems with.

Here’s how Crobat stacks up with the top 15 leads:

Azelf: Azelf will always try to Stealth Rock. And every time I will taunt it. After that, it will usually explode, so I go to Rotom-H, and set up Sunny Day after blocking explosion. Works like a charm.
Aerodactyl: It all depends on who wins the tie-breaker. If I taunt it, I’ll usually use Sunny Day, and I’ll usually die anyway, which I’m fine with. If he wins, I’m screwed. Either way, this one’s a pain to deal with.
Swampert: Taunt it, and set up with Sunny Day. With the bulk I invested in, it can’t do much to me.
Machamp: I’ll use Brave Bird every time. When it comes to Machamp, I don’t even care about Sunny Day, I just want to kill the dang thing. I would switch to Rotom-H, but I just can’t risk being KO’d by payback, which will deal huge damage if I attack or not.
Metagross: Usually trickers, which I counter with Heatran.
Jirachi: Same a metagross. Typically it will trick, but if not, no big deal, Heatran can sub up.
Infernape: I’ll Brave Bird it every time, Infernape needs to be killed as fast as possible.
Ninjask: Unfortunately, I have nothing on Ninjask. I can easily set up on it, but so can it.
Roserade: lol
Hippowdon: What a pain, but I’ll set up and flee.
Tyranitar: Another ugh, but U-Turn always does a good amount after I use Sunny Day, and after that, it’s easier to kill in the long run.
Heatran: Heatran is tough because it will benefit from the Sunny Day boost, so I will immediately switch to my Heatran. I can usually set up from there, ad save Crobat for later.
Smeargle: I’ve never seen trick Smeargle, honestly, so Crobat usually lols Smeargle with taunt.
Uxie: Once I use taunt, It can really do anything to me, so I’ll set up and U-Turn for decent damage.
Starmie: U-Turn to whatever. That'll show it.

Basically, you’ll notice that a bunch of the common leads force me to switch, which personally, I think is fine. As long as Crobat can set up Sunny Day at some point in the game, it has done its job. Unfortunately, trickers really mess Crobat up, so I have to be really careful around some leads. As I said before, they’re usually easy to predict, and Heatran doesn’t really mind a choice scarf, so I typically have them taken care of early on.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Heatran

Heatran @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid ( + Speed) ( - Attack)
Evs: 252 Speed, 252 Special Attack, 4 HP

- [Substitute][/color]
- [Fire Blast / Flamethrower]
- [Solarbeam]
- [Earth Power]


Heatran is cool. Although I must admit, this is the first Heatran I’ve had in any serious team of mine. Honestly, I wish I started using this thing sooner, because it’s absolutely hilarious how many people try to switch other Heatrans into this thing, only to be Checkmated by substitute. With Sunny Day running, Heatran was a must, because it could absorb any fire attacks that would otherwise ruin me. The great thing about this Heatran is Substitute, because after getting a fire boost from some silly fire type, this thing can get a free sub every time. After that, it’s hard to take down, because unlike most Heatrans out there, this one carries solarbeam, a move that can exterminate almost any bulky water that tries to stop it. With solarbeam’s 100 base power, Heatran can easily get rid of Swampert, and can put huge tents into Suicune, Gyarados, and Vaporeon, while they can’t do much to me, since the sun lowers all water type attacks. With that said, Heatran can be difficult to take down once it hides behind a sub. Again, it was important to maximize its speed, because I have to at least tie against other Heatran not carrying a Scarf. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with the item, lum berry. It is true that I had substitute to begin with to block status, but I found that if Heatran carries a Lum Berry, it becomes a Breloom counter, as it can come in on the Spore, and then kill it with Fire Blast. Or at least set up a sub on the switch. I also chose a Lum Berry since I really hate Life Orb, and more often than not, it’ll just kill myself when I’m sweeping. Leftovers is another option, which can be annoying with substitute, but honestly, Lum Berry has saved my butt quite a few times. I’m somewhat stumped when it comes to which fire move to run. With a Flash Fire and Sunny Day boost, plus STAB, Fire Blast does incomprehensible damage, however, with it’s accuracy and it’s low PP (Cool Fire Blast is often set up bait to anything that carries substitute, and honestly, with all of the boost that Heatran is going to get, I might want to play it safe with Flamethrower. It’ll do its share of damage, I guess. Earth Power was a must, since I really have to get rid of other Heatran as fast as I can, which is something my team really hates more than dragons, so I didn’t use HP Ice.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Rotomheat

Rotom-H @ Heat Rock
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold ( + Defense) ( - Attack)
Evs: 252 HP, 144 Defense, 112 Special Defense

- [Sunny Day]
- [Overheat]
- [Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball]
- [Thunder-Wave]


Rotom-H is honestly perfect for this team, and is something that I’ll never get rid of. First of all, it’s a Pokemon that can take advantage of Sunny Day boost without giving me another blatant weakness, and, it counters Machamp to an extent. I’m not really Machamp weak, per se, but I definitely have a personal hatred for it. I mean, it can confuse anything while dealing huge damage at the same time. I hate that, so I needed something to block dynamic punch completely. Sure, it can spam me with payback, but I’m bulky. Again, I created this set myself. Smogon may have better sets, but I’m not that kind of battler. The ev spread gives me all around tank abilities, so I don’t really need to be afraid of anything, giving me more opportunities to set up sunny day. Again, this is the second of two Pokemon that can set up sunny say, so this thing needs to last. Aside from sunny day, it can also slap paralysis around teams, which in the long run can really help sweep. I prefer Thunder Wave over Will-O-Wisp since most of my team is rather bulky, I just need to make things slower rather than weaker. After the STAB from sunny day, Overheat does 210 damage, stronger than selfdestruct. However, Rotom-H tends to be one of those tanks that sticks around, and once I use Overheat, I can’t even take down Gyarados with Thunderbolt, so I will rarely use Overheat. With Thunderbolt, Rotom-H can take down bulky waters, but it also hits most things that Overheat won’t. Plus, I find that Thunderbolt is generally a more reliable when it comes to hitting for neutral damage, since I don’t like using Overheat. Shadow Ball is always an option, though, as it gets STAB, but so does Thunderbolt. I would love to run HP Fighting on this, particular for Tyranitar, which tend to really ruin this team, but I can’t really find the room. Honestly, Thunderbolt is my main form of offense on this thing, and Overheat is somewhat of a last resort. If I’m running HP Fighting, I don’t think I have attacking potential, so I’m not running it. According to Smogon, a bulky Rotom-H should be running around 88 speed in order to outspeed a choice-banded Scizor, although I decided to invest the evs in defenses instead, seeing as Scizor really fears this whole team in general, there’s no need for Rotom to kill it.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Tangrowth

Tangrowth @ Wide Lens
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Jolly ( + Speed) ( - Special Attack)
Evs: 252 Attack, 220 Speed, 36 HP

- [Power Whip]
- [Rock Slide]
- [Sleep Powder]
- [Sward Dance]


Say hello to my little friend. I guess you could say that I sort of revolve my whole team around Tangrowth’s amazing ability to completely wreck teams, and I also knew that right off the bat, I would want something that could abuse chlorophyll. Again, I still have my rain dance team in the back of my mind, so I had to base a team off of it. With sunny day up, Tangrowth becomes fast, fast and extremely dangerous. Yes, it is the main sweeper on my team, but it only has two ways to attack. Although it is an amazing sweeper, it can also induce sleep, something I absolutely love. With the evs I have invested in on this particular Tangrowth, I can outspeed and put to sleep a timid, 252 speed scarf’d Heatran, a huge threat to this team. With that said, speed really isn’t an issue on this thing. The plan for Tangrowth is to come in on anything, really, put it to sleep so I can use Sward Dance. After that, I can spam Power Whips all over the place, which after STAB, totals up to 180 base power. Sleep Powder and Sward Dance were both musts on this set, so I could set up with relative ease, and Power Whip does massive damage. It was honestly an easy decision for the last move – rock slide, which can surprise Dragonite, something becoming more and more popular. Rock Slide can also hit flyers in general hard, surprising those most of the time. I know adding rock slide would give me an obvious weakness against steel types, but hey – sunny day teams in general love steel types, so there’s no problem there. Another reason why I love Tangrowth is because it is so dang bulky. In fact, some use it as a wall. Meaning, even if you happen to survive a STAB’d, 120 base Power Whip after a Sward Dance, that doesn’t mean its reign is over, as it can oftentimes be hard to kill. Despite this, I opted out of Leftovers and Synthesis as means for healing. In terms of items, I need Wide Lens, because the accuracy of most of my moves can really make or break a sweep. With Wide Lens, Power Whip has an accuracy of 95, Rock slide has 100, and Sleep Powder will hit 85 percent of the time. To me, that’s far more useful than leftovers. As for synthesis, I really couldn’t make room for it. It would be nice to be able to take advantage of Sunny Day with synthesis, since it would heal 2/3 of my HP, but Sleep Powder and Sward Dance are more useful, and are moves that I use more often. (I did try out Synthesis for a while) In a nutshell, this thing can really mess up some teams, and is great for cleaning up the mess that Heatran leaves behind.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Snorlax

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Adamant ( + Attack) ( - Special Attack)
Evs: 252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Special Defense

- [Body Slam]
- [Earthquake]
- [Fire Punch]
- [Crunch]


Snorlax is cool, too. With its Thick fat ability, and its high special defense stats, Snorlax is great at soaking up special attacks, and even some physical, while at the same time dealing quite a bit of damage to anything. With its wide movepool, Snorlax can contribute to the team regardless of whom or what I’m facing. Originally, I placed Snorlax I here to make sure I’m not swept by a fire type if my Heatran is fainted, but this thing is more useful than I would have thought. It’s also a Pokemon that can abuse Sunny Day, getting a boost to Fire Punch while not giving my whole team any obvious weaknesses. Body Slam is a cool move. Return does more damage, but I can’t resist any chance at paralysis. I just love it. Anyway, with the combination of Earthquake, Body Slam, Crunch and Fire Punch, I’m fairly curtain that it can hit anything with at least neutral damage. The evs were designed to maximize its offensive and lingering abilities. I originally wanted to invest a slight amount of evs in Special Defense, but I decided that I might as well help Snorlax take some Physical hits. With Thick Fat, it doesn’t really have a problem with many special threats.

Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Azelf

Azelf @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Lonely ( + Attack) ( - Defense)
Evs: 252 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 4 HP

- [Zen Headbut]
- [Ice Punch]
- [Grass Knot]
- [Flamethrower]


The last slot of my team. I had no idea what to do. I knew I needed a mix’d Pokemon of some sort, but with Salamence gone, who could fill the roll? Infernape? That would give me just more of the same weaknesses. Electivire? It had the moves, but seemed to lack enough offense. So, I decided to create my own controversial mix. I was thinking about it for a while. I needed something that could remove Skarmbliss from the equation, and I wasn’t a fan of sandstorm either. Infernape could have done that perfectly, unfortunately its fire typing wasn’t exactly perfect for my team, so I created the mix-zelf. I don’t know if it’s been done before, but I don’t care, ‘cause it works like a charm. Zen Headbut can put huge tents into Blissey, but it also works as a move for big time neutral damage. Ice punch takes care of Gliscor, and with enough prediction, it can surprise Flygon / Dragonite. Flamethrower was an obvious choice. Not only does it take care of Skarmory and some other steels, it can also hit neutrally like Zen Headbut for some serious damage, and Grass Knot checkmates most ground types, and some bulky waters. As for the evs, I opted out of investing any in speed, since this isn’t a late game sweeper as much as it’s a wall killer, so speed really isn’t an issue here. I’ll let Tangrowth take care of those faster threats to this team. With that said, I invested everything into offense, making this Azelf a great threat to skarmbliss and sandstorm teams, two things that I really don’t like. Again, I opted out of Fire Blast for the sake of accuracy and PP. Believe me, if something can miss, it’ll miss every time, so I’m always skeptical of fire blast. Explosion was another option, but I couldn’t really find room for it, as I really need everything in this set. Those were basically the only two other moves I considered running on this set. Now as for its item, I ran Lum Berry, since any kind of status really messes this whole thing up. If I get slapped by a status, the lum berry gives me another turn to kill a wall, if it’s necessary, at least. I oftentimes found myself getting killed by Life Orb, since Azelf is often subject to priority, so lum berry seemed like the most logical item to run. Unfortunately, when you’re running a mix-based Pokemon, you usually have to compromise defenses, making them really weak against priority. But oh well, I love it anyway. After all, no one really expects to run into a mix-zelf, so once they see Zen Headbut, they always go to their physical walls, only to get checkmated by Flamethrower. It gives me some unpredictability, which can always be a good thing.

Conclusion

Well, there’s the team I’m running right now. I just hope that I’ve shown a couple people that sunny day teams don’t suck, and that they can be devastating to battle. After all, no one really build a team with sunny day in mind, which can give anyone using one an advantage. Despite this, sunny day has some pretty large disadvantages that are hard to get around, but if one can properly build one, you will succeed.

So, yeah, rate my team. I know there are plenty of things that can be fixed, so feel free to point them out. Comments are cool, too.
Checkmate
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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Empty Re: Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day

Post by raquaza Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:48 am

If you use that team in a standart battle you`l automaticly lose, cause Heatran and Azelf are legendaries.
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Post by Knuckles Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:05 pm

raquaza wrote:If you use that team in a standart battle you`l automaticly lose, cause Heatran and Azelf are legendaries.

it is to my understanding that the two pokemon mentioned are not deemed to be Ubers, but of the OU tier, ergo, they are allowed..but moving along..

one thing i noticed, swampert could tear this team apart (under Trick room anyway..) most notable would be the "swampeffet" variation, especially if carrying rindo berry. being able to carry both counter and mirror coat could instantly screw over any pokemon that isn't fortunate enough to take it out. scarfTran could be a problem here as well..very seldomly, the stall or TR variant of cresselia could thin out this teams chances of victory. although rare, Blissey carrying defense curl and counter could stall the crap out if this team if allowed to get in at least 3 defense curls. aside from that, toxic spikes and stealth rock after crobat is gone may hinder you quite a bit. most notably once it and heatran are gone aside from that, the team has good synergy and the potential to do quite a bit of damage
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Post by Umbrielle Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:17 am

This team has a serious Tyranitar weakness. Not only does Sand Stream mess with your plan, you literally haven't got a Rock resistance (and only one Dark resistance).

I have two suggestions here. One would be to switch Snorlax out for a Swampert, keeping your Fire resistance, but adding a new resistance to Rock and an immunity to Electric. Swampert can also support your team with Stealth Rock, and Earthquake will put Tyranitar in his place. Also, Ice Beam will be a good answer to Dragonite. Alternatively, you could drop Azelf for Machamp, who handles Tyranitar very well and can break the bulky-Waters who tend to annoy sun teams.

If you keep Azelf, she should have maximum Speed.

Lastly, do you really need both Substitute and a Lum Berry on Heatran? Have you tried a Salac Berry?
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Post by Knuckles Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:03 am

umbriel wrote:This team has a serious Tyranitar weakness. Not only does Sand Stream mess with your plan, you literally haven't got a Rock resistance (and only one Dark resistance).

I have two suggestions here. One would be to switch Snorlax out for a Swampert, keeping your Fire resistance, but adding a new resistance to Rock and an immunity to Electric. Swampert can also support your team with Stealth Rock, and Earthquake will put Tyranitar in his place. Also, Ice Beam will be a good answer to Dragonite. Alternatively, you could drop Azelf for Machamp, who handles Tyranitar very well and can break the bulky-Waters who tend to annoy sun teams.

If you keep Azelf, she should have maximum Speed.

Lastly, do you really need both Substitute and a Lum Berry on Heatran? Have you tried a Salac Berry?

Glad you pointed that out with tyranitar.. goes to show how often i use one and have them used on me.. people know better...XD good suggestions none the less
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Post by saber Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:13 pm

You must not forget about rain team, usually rain teams have heavy offensive appraoches, and a kingdra etc. must be put away as early as possible otherwise nothing outspeeds it and only 1 pokemon on your team can survive a +1 outrage after stealth rocks (heatran).

Its a nice team and I dont really have any suggestions for change, but strategically you may want to be careful when it comes to other weather...

Also I personally would get rid of sleep powder on Tangrowth, as you are defensively vulnerable to fire in sun, so you cannot afford to miss
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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Empty Re: Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day

Post by Julesrules11 Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:18 pm

you have weakness but i love the layout this is the kind of layout everyone should use
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Julesrules11

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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Empty Re: Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day

Post by kance Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:18 am

well one of the main problems is a weavile will sweep the whole team so you will have to watch out for that
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Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day Empty Re: Rain, Rain, go away - you're gonna meet my Sunny Day

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